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Turner +3 widen audio?

Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2014 9:31 am
by 479tx
Anyone know which caps to replace in a Turner +3 to widen the audio response up?

Posted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 7:11 pm
by 479tx
I have my old school 148 w/ goldfinger's hifi tx mods and my turner +3 sounds pretty good, was thinking maybe I could change a cap or two in it for a little more low end.

Here's the schematic

http://www.radiomanual.info/schemi/ACC_ ... 3_user.pdf

Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2014 12:32 pm
by Goldfinger
Turner3schem_mod.png
Turner3schem_mod.png (125.97 KiB) Viewed 1451 times
1 - change to a 1 meg
2 - change to a 1 or 2.2uF
3 - change to a 10uF
4 - change to a .005uF (for more highs)

Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2014 10:13 pm
by a365
Thank you Goldfinger for sharing this mod :D

Posted: Sun Jun 15, 2014 5:53 pm
by 479tx
I liked the results of this on my Turner +3

Thanks Goldfinger

Re: Turner +3 widen audio?

Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2016 1:46 pm
by redlght
Any way to vary the tone on this mic? Thanks

Re: Turner +3 widen audio?

Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2016 9:37 pm
by Goldfinger
Yes, you could change cap #4 to a .1uF then lift one end and connect a 100K potentiometer in series with it.

Re: Turner +3 widen audio?

Posted: Sat Sep 10, 2016 9:37 am
by redlght
Thanks once again

Re: Turner +3 widen audio?

Posted: Sat Sep 10, 2016 11:21 am
by Goldfinger
redlght wrote:Thanks once again
You bet.
The reason I said to change it to .1uF is so that when the tone is set all of the way down, it will attenuate the beyond that of an unmodified mic. It will end up having a wide range of adjustment.





"Turner +3 hi-fi bass mod"

Re: Turner +3 widen audio?

Posted: Sun Sep 25, 2016 8:57 pm
by redlght
I don't seem to have much tone change if any ,,, does it matter if the 100k is on the ground side of cap 4?

Re: Turner +3 widen audio?

Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2016 11:25 am
by Goldfinger
Try making the cap larger, .22 or .47

Re: Turner +3 widen audio?

Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2016 1:29 pm
by redlght
ok a .47 has the most change so far .22 has no change .1 has no change

Re: Turner +3 widen audio?

Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2016 5:15 pm
by redlght
all most more like a volume control towards the bass side

Re: Turner +3 widen audio?

Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 7:15 pm
by 479tx
What does the resistor change here do specifically? I tried this set of mods on a Turner +3 before and liked the change in tone.

Thinking about doing it on another +3 mic for a friend.

Thanks

Re: Turner +3 widen audio?

Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 3:22 pm
by Goldfinger
The higher load resistance changes the roll-off of the high impedance ceramic element allowing it to respond a little lower. Doesn't really change the gain much. Same trick people have been doing to the handheld D-104's to make them sound fuller.

Re: Turner +3 widen audio?

Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 8:11 pm
by 479tx
That makes sense.

I happened to stumble across this thread on worldwidedx.com, this guy talks about replacing the caps in a Turner +3 with high end audiophile type caps to make the mic sound better than stock (so he says)

---

Rebuilding the microphone to sound better than new only requires a few select parts. These are parts known for audio quality & sound better than ordinary parts. The parts are:

2x 22uF @ 16 volt Elna Silmic II capacitors (replaces 20uF & 15uF)
2x 4.7uF @ 25 volt Elna Silmic II capacitors (replaces 5uF)
1x 2.2uF MKC 1862 poly type capacitor (replaces 5uF from volume control wiper to white wire audio output)
2x .47uF Panasonic Poly type capacitors (replaces tiny blue tantalum capacitors.

The poly type capacitors are larger, but will fit. Move the transistor slightly (bend over) and place the MKC 1862 capacitor on its side. The Elna Silmic are very fine audio grade capacitors and the poly types are great for audio. The original Tantalum are terrible sounding caps. Remember proper polarity with the new Silmic II capacitors. The poly types have no polarity, cannot install backwards. The schematic is on the internet.

Your microphone will sound more clear than ever with the new parts plus get back those nice high frequencies with the deep & powerful bass.

--

What's your take on his approach? Some of the caps he's suggesting replacing you don't mention increasing in value, was that because they appear to be large enough (pass enough low end) enough already? Just trying to learn as I play around.

Re: Turner +3 widen audio?

Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 8:53 pm
by 479tx
What effect would making this cap smaller in value, like he suggests (possibly because he couldn't find one closer to the original, or make it fit?)
1x 2.2uF MKC 1862 poly type capacitor (replaces 5uF from volume control wiper to white wire audio output)

Would it decrease low bass frequencies? I see that they sell a 4.7uf cap of the same brand/type that's about the same size as the 2.2

Re: Turner +3 widen audio?

Posted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 1:53 pm
by Goldfinger
Yeah, though I agree that using esoteric caps do make an audio signal "sound" better, it's usually only noticeable on a high end home stereo level when using speakers with good resolution. I've been using high end caps for decades in home stereo pre-amps, power amps and speaker crossovers. Every type of cap has it's own sound signature/tone that's independent of frequency range. For instance a 4.7uF polypropylene or foil-and-film capacitor will sound different and/or better than a 4.7uF electrolytic when used to crossover a high end silk dome tweeter. if you do a sweep and measure the crossover roll-off they will be identical in every way, yet the tone/timbre you hear coming out of the tweeter will sound noticeably different.
I have found using them in radio is unnecessary because they are bulky and the distortion levels present in CB audio sections coupled with the limited frequency response makes the merits of high end caps virtually indistinguishable.
I admit I do employ this gentleman's theory to a small degree. I usually advocate using tantalum instead of electrolytic in polarized circuits and mylar or polypropylene in non-polarized areas just for the possible positive qualities as compared to their counterparts. On many of the posts I also mentioned non-polar electrolytics as they still seen to work fine and it gives the hobbyist more choices for added availability.
The only way to get "more highs" is to decrease the value of shunt caps going to ground. Changing to "esoteric" caps will not add more sparkle, though the "tone" differences "may" be audible to a high end receiver with a speaker that has a tweeter. Also making any of the series caps lower in value will always make less low end, not more. It also depends on the load impedance of the following circuit as to whether a cap is large enough for the stage. Most of the other hobbyists I've seen on the internet don't seem to be able to discern these differences when they make these determinations.

I've been doing this a long time and I have to disagree that tantalum caps sound "shitty". They have lower ESR than electrolytics and sound much better in high-end stereo circuits. The only problems with tantalum is they short easier then any other polarized cap but it's only a problem in DC filtering/shunt circuits where they are under high demand. In series circuits with higher impedance values I've never seen a problem with them as long as the have a voltage rating with a good cushion for the application, which is true for any cap.

Re: Turner +3 widen audio?

Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 12:56 pm
by 479tx
Awesome info! Thank you for the reply.

Re: Turner +3 widen audio?

Posted: Fri Jun 23, 2023 12:38 pm
by a365
Awesome read to grasp the hifi audio concept :mrgreen: